TRANSCRIPT: Meeting 5, Session 6

Public Comment

Date

May 18, 2011

Location

New York, N.Y.

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Transcript

DR. WAGNER:  Where is Steve and Barbara? In order that we maximize the time that we have available, I think we ought to get going. This is the public comments session. You know, a couple of process issues, first of all, to remind folks that the Commission staff published an inventation prior to this meeting in the Federal Register inviting comment. I understand there was something on the order of 300 people who wish to offer comment. We’ll obviously not get 300 in the next 45 minutes, but the plan is to ask and in fact, I think responders or rather the public commentators have been notified.
  And the plan is that Mr. [WON CHUCK?] back here has the list of folks that will be offering comment. And maybe the thing to do is to just dive into that. I want to remind you before we do that the Commission of course is charged by President Obama to be looking at bioethical issues generated by novel and emerging research in biomedicine and related areas of science and technology and to promote policies and practices that assure ethical responsibility.
  And, remind you that the specific charge on this meeting has been around looking on the topic of federal standards regarding human subjects research. So with that background, and each person I believe has a minute and a half is the way we’ve been able to try and cram in as many comments as possible. So, Juan, if you’re ready for the first?
  JUAN:  Ms. Cassandra Lewis? Hi, Ms. Lewis.
  MS. LEWIS:  Okay, thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Cassandra Lewis and I’m a targeted individual from Baltimore, Maryland. My story may sound disjointed. I’m trying to keep it within the minute and a half. I worked as a legal secretary at Hogan and Hartson in Washington D.C. It is now called Hogan Lovells.
  Attorney Jan McDavid made a client mistake that she tried to blame on me. I then refused to work for Ms. McDavid. Shortly thereafter, strange and inexplicable events occurred on my job. And after being fired, followed me to my home and to all my travels.
  Attorney Christopher J. Hagen, formerly of Hogan and Hartson, Mr. Samuel Conrad, he’s a retired security administrator of Hogan and Hartson, and Robert Johnston, who is the current firm administrator of Hogan and Lovells are responsible for my targeting.
  I believe to protect Ms. McDavid’s reputation, a phone call was made to whom and why they did this to me, I truly just speculate. Gang stalking and harassment was used to implement this nonconsensual biotechnology application that is being used on me.
  I now experience involuntary limb movements. I receive stingings. I get pains to my head, to my abdomen, to my vaginal area and to my anal area. I am receiving from a language that I read concerning this technology, it is called Medusa, developed by the Navy is being used on me.
  I get burning on my lower legs and my ankles. I get ringing in my ears that’s pitch is like they pitch it. I get pulsing sensations in my body. I get an electrical current, an electrical sensation that goes up and down through my body and can be isolated to different parts of my body.
  I get severe tingling on the soles of my feet. I’m almost done. It’s almost like being electrocuted, and the first time I experienced this was walking into a bank. I get buzzing sensations on the soles of my feet and individual toes. I also get facial manipulations, just to name a few of the things that happen to me.
  I feel as though I am being roboticized. These are very strange occurrences and I would like for all the targeted individuals in this room to stand up and to show yourself. My story is similar to a lot of these people.
  WOMAN 1:  Yeah.
  JUAN:  Mr. Eric Suba?
  MR. SUBA:  Thank you. I’m a physician and cervical cancer prevention in developing countries is my life’s work. I previously outlined my concerns in written form to Valerie Bonham and to Adam Michaels.
  My concerns are regarding ongoing studies of cervical cancer prevention currently being conducted in India. These studies include scientifically gratuitous control groups of unscreened women, and it includes scientifically gratuitous measurements of cervical cancer death rates among over 100,000 Indian women who are not being provided with any cervical cancer prevention services at all.
  These studies have been funded continuously since 1997 by the NCI and by the Bill and Linda Gates Foundation. I’d like to offer a testable hypothesis that if these studies had been reviewed by any one of this afternoon’s panelists, they’d be found without exception to be unethical by each of the panelists.
  I’d also like to offer the testable hypothesis to the Commission that these ongoing Indian studies could serve as a valuable prism through which to identify improvement opportunities for human subjects protections.
  And finally, I’d like to offer my own technical consultative services to the Commission, as well as those of my colleagues in Vietnam and other developing countries, if the Commission should find a more grassroots perspective to be valuable. Thank you.
  JUAN:  Mr.Thelmas McClelland?
  MR. MCCLELLAND:  I am 59 years old from New York City. I’ve been a victim of ongoing nonconsensual human subject experimentation for my entire adult life, and possibly may have been a victim since my childhood.
  I have been targeted with ongoing microwave weapons, as well as drugging with neurotoxic contaminants covertly placed on articles of clothing, as well as on other personal possessions.
  I believe my being a nonconsensual human test subject is related to the CIA’s MK Alter Behavior Modification Program that began in the 1950’s. Moreover, after I read a July 1963 CIA MK Alter Report that became unclassified in 1994, and emphasized that it would be necessary to test unwitting citizens in their ordinary day activities without their knowledge in the final stage of the testing program, I believe that I could be one of those many thousands of civilians that were unwittingly tested in the CIA’s behavior modification program.
  WOMAN 2:  [UNINTEL – OFF MIC].
  MR. MCCLELLAND:  Getting the government to take action concerning acknowledgement and putting an end to unethical consensual human experimentation that has also been a part of our country’s past history is of great concern to me.
  I believe that there has been other members of my family that were victims also.
  WOMAN 3:  Very good.
  JUAN:  Thank you for your courage.
  [APPLAUSE]
  JUAN:  Mr. Brian Rall?
  WOMAN:  He’s not here.
  JUAN:  MS. Anya Briggs?
  MS. BRIGGS:  My name is Anya Briggs and I am a private citizen and resident of New York City. I have been and continue to be experimented on against my will and without my permission as a human test subject and as a targeted individual forced into trauma based mind control programs.
  Because of this ongoing experimentation, torture and abuse, since 2008 and before, I have endured the following physical and psychological symptoms: extreme debilitating and chronic fatigue, weakness and dizziness for days and weeks at a time; lack of motor control as well as the sensation of being physically controlled by an unseen force.
  My left arm occasionally experiences pain and discomfort from an object of unknown origin moving under my skin and being activated somehow. I have an unusual dental filling of unknown origin on the side of one of my back upper right teeth and no memory of having this procedure done.
  And I have X-ray printouts and a signed affidavit from my dentist stating this. Said dental filling causes me sharp pain, discomfort and sensitivity.
  I have experienced extreme itching, burning and pain in my right leg that turned into an intense bright pink and then disappeared completely after several minutes. And I have photographs of this happening in real time.
  I have a stretched uterus, and yet I have never consciously and to my knowledge been pregnant. I have had equidistant sores that have appeared on both of my sub-scapularus muscles at the same time.
  I have been drugged. I’ve been abducted from my home. I’ve had guns pointed at my head. I’ve had death threats. And much, much worse, believe it or not, by being in these programs and experiments, the after effects of this have made me socially avoidant most days, and it’s extremely hard to establish relationships with people I can trust as a result of these abominations. And I thank the Committee for hearing my statements.
  JUAN:  Thank you.
  [APPLAUSE]
  JUAN:  Mr. Ken Rhodes?
  DR. WAGNER:  Juan, I think people are being so good about keeping the pace, and this is so stressful for many of them, we can allow them to slow down just a little bit, okay? This is important for them.
  MR. RHODES:  My name is Ken Rhodes from Michigan. I’m here to tell you that the use of electronic weapons and mind control is helping the United States against the American people.
  You may think this will never affect you, but there will come a day when this will affect all of you, your children, their children and every generation from this day forward.
  I’m here to speak for every person affected by these horrific crimes against humanity. I can’t go on. Thank you.
  WOMAN:  Come on. Yes you can.
  JUAN:  Ken, if you want to get back in line at some time and you want to finish that up, we would understand.
  WOMAN:  Could someone read it for him?
  DR. WAGNER:  Someone could certainly read it for him, yes.
  WOMAN:  Ken, I’ll read it for you.
  MR. RHODES:  Okay.
  DR. WAGNER:  Thank you for doing that. And you are? I’m sorry.
  LISA BECKER:  My name is Lisa Becker.
  DR. WAGNER:  Thank you Lisa.
  LISA BECKER:  I had the privilege to address you at the last Commission meting. I’m here to speak for every person affected by these horrific crimes against humanity by a tyrannical group of people committed to eugenics and population control. If you’re not part of this inside group of tyrants, you’re like all of us here today. Ask yourselves. Have you forgotten what it is to be an American and to be brought into tyranny? You will soon learn what it is to be a slave. Allowing this to continue is allowing our rights and freedoms to be taken away from all of us – one right at a time. It’s interesting how much technology exists, that would find the criminals and the perpetrators of this heinous crimes of electronic harassment and terrorist tactics, being used against innocent U.S. citizens on a daily basis. These technologies should be used for the betterment of our society, but you know what the most powerful weapon is in our arsenal that would put an end to these horrific crimes, once and for all, it is someone giving a damn and correcting the things that are taking place. We have all gone to people who took an oath to protect and serve, who have been in commissions to investigate the unethical treatment of citizens and human experimentations. We have been denied protection and service and have been ignored by commission after commission, enough is enough, this is America. We’re supposed to be better than this. We all know what Hitler did to the Jewish people. When this all comes out what the American government has done to their own people it will make Hitler look like a saint. If some of you didn’t get some morals.
  MALE:  I’d like to object to that.
  LISA BECKER:  Thank you but I’ll finish.
  MALE:  He’s used person I … 14:08…
  LISA BECKER:  Well then you don’t understand what we’re going through. If some of you don’t get some morals or conscience, you will be need, I’m sorry, I can’t read the rest of it. Thank you.
  DR. WAGNER: Ken and Lisa, thank you very much.
  MALE:  And also a victim, I’m 67 years old from young (inaudible)  Thank you.
  DR. WAGNER: Thank you.
  MALE:  Hearing more this.
  DR. WAGNER: Thank you. Ms. Sandra Fields.
  SANDRA FIELDS:  In a way I’m very sorry to address you like this because I think that what you’re doing is admirable, but I’m here to represent this other group, and I am also targeted and this is my story. My name is Sandra Fields. I’m an architect, recipient of Who’s Who of Women in America achievement award and have run a successful business for over 28 years. My life and livelihood have been compromised for the last 11 years by being attacked by electro-magnetic radiation torture, and by organized stalking. I cannot live in my rent stabilized apartment in New York City as a result of this torture. I’m currently staying in motels and friends’ houses in the last year. Thousands of Americans are currently suffering from chemical, electro-magnetic, psychological and physical torture with no government relief or laws. Our servicemen, prisoners, and thousands of unknowing innocent civilians are currently being lamed, tormented and tortured as a result of military research, medical research, pharmaceutical research, physiological and psychological studies that have virtually destroyed participants’ sanity, physical well-being, reputation and privacy. Government projects like MK Ultra and Cointell Pro are rumored to be active today with no update with updated forms of surveillance and torture and technologies. In 2010 Morrison and Foerster won the right to proceed with a case against the CIA, Department of Defense and the U.S. Army for veterans’ development of multiple diseases and ailments tied to a secret testing program in which the United States military personnel were deliberately exposed to chemical and biological weapons and other toxins without informed consent. Sleep deprivation, poisoning and high frequency doses of continuous microwave pulses are inclined to increase one’s chances for mental disorders, autism, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease. The body’s immune system is broken down, their nervous system and the brain and the spinal cord are attacked and maimed. There are no laws to prevent electro-magnetic except in Maine. The Federal Government does not acknowledge these crimes. There is no literature, educational resources of assistance for victims. I would like to ask this Committee to consider an investigation into these unethical violations and a task force be created for educational and to help people who are in trouble of these situations, and I’d be honored to be help in this thing. Thank you very.
  DR. WAGNER:  Thank you Sandra. Mr. Stephen Hopitect.
  STEPHEN HOPITECT:  I just want to give also want to give thanks and gratitude for this Commission actually being here and being able to bear witness to our testimony to us as well. I think it’s a credit to Obama, even though I’m against a lot of his policies that he would actually create this type of Commission. I do hope that it goes beyond these walls though and actually creates some type of implementation for change. I can speak for hours about my own personal experiences and some of the more modern versions of projects that several people talked about. My harassment started back in 1997, more from a remote influencing perspective, I made contacts in different military industrial complexes, basically different agencies, I had received microwave harassment actually on and off for a number of years, where they were trying to project images of suicide and various states of basically emotional mood management. This was confirmed to me in 2001 by a contact of a national security agency. He worked in… he still, I’m much more (inaudible) at this point but I talked to him recently, he worked in communications intelligence division of NSA for 25 years and this is right after 9/11, with my doctor. When he came to meet with me, I had a part-time job at the time, and he basically was working at a kind of like, in that division he was working, he was examining different types of abuses that were going on in the NSA, and he stated to me personally that my attention fell within the realm of potential abuse, in the agency that he was investigating. At this point, he is still involved in the agency. I can provide his name and information more in private though, because I don’t want to get in trouble for over-disclosure of someone who’s still active in that agency, especially with the technology they have. Anyway, he basically also confirmed to me that what I experienced in terms of some, just the tip of the iceberg, a part of my experience is with the emotional projection, he said that that was very common and that they were using microwaves because they had taken really advanced EEG images of people of people in different emotional states, not those digital brain wave signatures, emotional clusters of people feeling different emotional states. They said that they could take those digital brain wave signatures, piggyback on a certain bandwidth of microwaves as a carrier wave and they can target people worldwide without need for a local transmitter. He confirmed all that to me and said they used satellite to target anybody they want and it’s a very common procedure within this portion of NSA. Which is horrendous that they actually let this going on. So I think the idea of the non-consensual abuse needs to be extended to more the covert military establishment and then later on, 2003, when I was getting more advanced projections were like multi-layered not just from my conscious feelings but into my unconscious, he said that they were trying to fine tune their projections on me to see how I could block it out, because I work more in the consciousness field of meditation, alternative spirituality, so I do different techniques to tell people to block out some of these frequencies by taking control of their own bio-platonic fields. I’ve also made contact with many scientists over the years, undergone scientists who used to work in various intelligence areas, I’ve also confirmed this and much much beyond technologies, where they use longitudinal electro-magnetic wave technologies. Technology that Tessler first developed, which also could be used in alternative healing, I’m also aware, we have a friend in upstate who’s been curing people of different illnesses using this technology but he worked in the Pentagon for decades and confirmed some of this technology is also being used for more of the nefarious activities. I can go on for hours, but I’ll probably provide written testimony. Thank you.
  DR. WAGNER:  Mr. Rodney Bittle. Mr. Rodney Bittle?
  RODNEY BITTLE:  Hello, Ladies and gentlemen and the Committee. I’m here today representing an organization, also myself, under the technological advancements of injustices, whether it be medical or military. I’ve been under attack for some 25 years, mentally and physical abuse, psychological abuse, pornography, also have all these negative, as this gentlemen was talking about, suicidal and mental put through tortuous things such as mental abuse caused by a car accident, so maybe one of your family members dying, maybe your sister or your brother, Committee members I ask you to think for a second and acknowledge that this does happen, and it is relevant to today and it is relevant to the bio-ethical issue committee and one thing that I would like to mention that might give you some insight to just how detailed and how powerful this is. I was in my living room one day and this computer came in, the interface of this computer, and it said something to me about cause I was called satanic and anti-Christ for the ugly, nasty evil torture they was putting me through. It dropped a program into me and this would have been the military side of this computer I’m sure, that was martial arts technique that I performed to exact precision where I picked up my coffee table in my living room with my leg, wrapped it around it, smashed it into the wall. If you don’t think these are detailed, that they don’t get information from every individual that we’re talking about, his is how detailed and how powerful these programs can be, anyone here could be manipulated at any time. Do not think anyone is above it. We need regulations, we need laws, we need people to look into these regulations. Human experimental is going on for years. What you were talking about earlier, I appreciate the Committee but what we’re talking about is so high-tech and advanced, we’re not talking hospitals, we’re not talking people in psych wards, but it does include those. We’re talking high tech warfare here. We’re talking technological advancement beyond the human comprehension of the mind. We’re way, way behind the comprehension of the mind, that’s why they’re so far ahead, that’s far they can get away with it, there’s no regulations, no laws against this type of human experimental. Whether it’s in the United States of America that’s happened, these corporations are outside that are outside of the United States of America producing these weaponry and doing these studies, we need regulations. It’s way above, I believe, possibly pharmaceutical companies are helping with this research, backing it, there’s no regulation on it, they’re the big money people. You know, I didn’t realize you guys are regulating that stuff, but there’s big money in this medical research. I think they’re buying it and selling it and they’re killing us, they’re killing you.
  DR. WAGNER:  We appreciate your story, because I think you can talk to that first-hand, some of these broader allegations, maybe I’ve got the crux of what your concern is. Okay? Thank you.
  MALE:  (INAUDIBLE) 
  DR. WAGNER: You bet. Thank you. Mr. Derrick Robinson.
  DERRICK ROBINSON: Good afternoon and thank you for this opportunity. Good afternoon to the Commission and I thank you for this opportunity to speak to you this afternoon. My name is Derrick Robinson and I’m President of an organization called Freedom from (inaudible) 24:32 Harassment and Surveillance and I represent many of the people that are in this room today, as well as hundreds of those across the U.S., and millions, many thousands across the U.S. who are not in our organization, who are being targeted without their knowledge, as well as those world-wide, millions, thousands, I’m speaking of thousands of people here, in China, who sent me their statement to give to you. I’ve heard a lot this afternoon about IOB’s, about ethics vs., sorry my thoughts aren’t coming together right now. But anyway, but what we want to express to you is that human experimentation by this government is happening today, that there are many thousands of people, whether they’re realizing it or not, are being affected, and that we would like to express to you that this is a situation that needs to be addressed by a task force, by a commission, because we are not hearing, because the government is not hearing from those who are being victimized by the experimentation. What you are speaking about tonight is very relevant in terms of those who are being experimented on, but what about feedback from those who are being experimented on who have no place to go, who need a voice, who are suffering like these people here, who are suffering like those across this country, and there are, what you’re hearing tonight is just a minuscule amount of what I hear on a daily basis. This is a widespread government program that is non-consensual that is affecting many, many thousands and it’s growing daily. And the Commission, I would hope would express to Barrack Obama that non-consensual federally funded human research programs are going on and need to be addressed, and also the victims of those programs need a way to file a complaint, to talk to a Commission, to talk to a task force about what is happening to them. Thank you.
  DR. WAGNER:  Mr. Robert LeBudier.
  ROBERT LEBUDIER: Thank you for having me. My name is Robert LeBudier. I’m an eye witness and victim that people are tampering with and retaliating against and this is my public comment concerning non compliance of bio-ethics and other codes of ethics. These non compliances are a grave preplanned, premeditated breach of international conventions, and are intentional heinous atrocious, war crimes against humanity, domestic terrorism, domestic espionage and genocide. We the victims are a group of U.S. nations that are getting directly affected to the extent of attempted murder, that is genocide. The means and methods that are being abused are electronics and directed energy that unlawfully harness human subjects, unlawful experiments, research and other exercise, the unlawful practicing and patterning of organized war crimes, the means are electro-magnetic, radio frequency, cyclotronic fields, voice to skull techniques and other energy weapons that harness unwilling humans against our will, and criminally conspires against our rights. They’re used to (inaudible) is one of the means of unlawful surveillance with criminal intent to terrorize, injury, harass, intimidate and murder. That’s called stalking with the same intent. Also., unlawful human service (inaudible) 28:27 that steals an individual’s bio-energy signature through signaling splashing, unwilling human subjects, then using synthetic telepathy, that’s a theft of human intangible property, and other directed energies causing physical and mental pain, suffering and trauma. These perpetrators torture victims in their physical control. This is cruel, unusual treatment and terroristic hate crime that damages the subject’s health, finances, dignity, employability, reputation and human property while disrupting our mental facilities. Where is the equal protection of the law that is constitutionally ours? Is it not unethical to keep that from us? Our country’s government helped develop these technologies and they are forbidden to use on U.S. nations. That is law. Do not execute laws concerning these crimes is seditious conspiracy and treason. These unlawful acts are in direct violation of UN General Assembly resolutions, international humanitarian laws and a slew of U.S. laws and is completely unethical and irresponsible. WE rightly seek disclosure through prosecution. Thank you for having me. Good day.
 DR. WAGNER:   MS. Lynn Barrinburg?
 LYNN BARRINBURG: I’m Lynn Barringburg, and I had prepared a commentary but I find I’m not going to give it. I couldn’t put it together in my head, for 90 seconds. I’m another person who’s being used for non consensual human experimentation. Stanford Research Institute, Lockheed Martin, and UC Berkeley, are the criminal organizations and university that are involved in this. I can’t speak publicly. Anyway, there are no ethics, there’s no morality, rules, regulations, they’re able to side step an IRB, Institutional Review Board, for god sakes. I mean, there’s a lot going on, you people don’t know about. You know nothing and it’s coming your way. You know. These nanotechnology institutes that are attached to national laboratories, UC Berkeley has its own molecular foundry, you need to look into this stuff because it’s going mainstream, it’s not just us. You’re going to be affected, your loved ones, your children, your grand-children, you need to take a look at what’s going on here. We may not be the most eloquent speakers, but don’t thoroughly discount us.
  DR. WAGNER:  Mr. Timothy White. Okay. Mr. Ted Gunderson.  I’d like to point Mr. Gunderson is not here, is that the.
  MALE:  Yeah, I was that I couldn’t speak for him. I was told I could and then they told me today I couldn’t.
  DR. WAGNER:  I’d be happy to, would you prefer to speak for him? That’s fine.
  MALE:  I’m going to say something.
  DR. WAGNER:  Go for it.
  MALE:   Ted Gunderson.
  DR. WAGNER:  And your name? I’m sorry.
  PETER ROSENHOME:  I’m Peter Rosenhome. Ted Gunderson was in charge of the FBI of Los Angeles and we had written up a speech but I was told I couldn’t present it, so I don’t have it.
  DR. WAGNER:  Oh.
  PETER ROSENHOME: But he basically says that this is all going down, mind control is destroying our nation, and stuff like that. Honestly I was told I couldn’t do it, so I’m not prepared. But Ted was a top FBI agent, and he would like to support us.
  Dr. WAGNER:  Okay.
  PETER ROSENHOME: Okay.
  DR. WAGNER:  Thank you very much. Those are the names that we had scheduled for the microphone.. please stay there. Are there others from the audience that we’ve got, a few more minutes just to… Would you just rather just give us something rather than speak, is that your?
  FEMALE:  No, I would like to speak.
  DR. WAGNER:  Please go to the microphone. Identify yourself.
  LESLIE CRAWFORD:  Hello, everyone, my name is Leslie Crawford. I’m here from the State of Michigan. I wanted to speak about bio-technology applications being utilized on my person. I have medical reports showing eye damage being done to my eyes, my eyes does not have a mirror image, I also have nano wiring inside my eyes, I have pictures of the actual implants from the eye doctor, once enlarging the nano implants, you will see a copy of the actual particles in my eyes. I have CAT scans in my eyes and PETs showing wiring, nano wiring in my head. This is my brain, it is straight from the right side to the left side of my head. I also have implants in my chin, in the chin region on both sides, one side shows a wire, the other side shows the actual implant. Implant particle devices coming down through here, projectiles of the nano particles on the side of my head, enlarged pictures. These crimes is happening in America, this is a domestic problem, not only international, the victims is not being just victimized individually, we are being victimized and our family members as well. Gang stalking tactics and harassment was utilized to implement us into the program unconventionally.
  DR. WAGNER:  Leslie, I think your comments reinforce much of what we’ve heard, and if you don’t mind, I’d like to make room for others at the microphone now since it seems to be reinforcing. Juan, I’d like you to pick some of these gentlemen right here.
  FEMALE:  She’s been waiting.
  DR. WAGNER:  I’m sorry, who’s been waiting? Oh yeah, please.
  EUGENIA VERVAIN:  My name is Virginia Vervain.
  DR. WAGNER:  I’m sorry. Eugenia?
  EUGENIA VERVAIN: Eugenia Vervain. Yes. I think from this Commission and this panel but ethics there were most talk about pharmaceutical research, but I haven’t heard anyone talking about a psychotronic weaponry, it’s a bio-electronic magnetic weaponry research. Who in this panel are familiar with the psychotronic weaponry, raise your hand please? Who of you know about psychotronic weapons? Any one of  you?
  MALE:  You’re saying psychotronic.
  EUGENIA VERVAIN:  Psychotronic bio electro-magnetic weapons, are you familiar with that?
  DR. WAGNER:  Not at all.
  EUGENIA VERVAIN:  No, okay, in this audience, is anybody familiar with the psychotronic weapon?
  FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes. Yes.
  MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes. Yes.
  EUGENIA VERVAIN:   Okay, the audience is familiar with that and I think that in order for a panel or a commission to be able to help this problem and this issue will have to have more knowledge on what psychotronic weapons are. I am physically leashed from my neck to the electro-magnetic power of one of the weapons that is being used against me, I get tortured day and night, with (inaudible) dreams that I don’t want in my head. And for days my body they prod with neurological system so they do anything to my body, sometimes it’s painful, sometimes it makes me sick, that’s one of [inaudible], sometimes I feel I’m going to have a heart attack, they do all kinds of things like pulsating with the electromagnetic frequencies, they use a program called “Metal Reality” that makes them feel that they are writing there in front of you and as you know, electricity travels as fast as light and you know who fast that travels, right? How fast does it travel?
  DR. WAGNER:  186,000 a second, yes. I’ll tell you what, though, we do need to hear…
  EUGENIA VERVAIN:  So we appreciate if you can become more aware and read the internet, this comes from [inaudible] on psychotronic weapons so that you will probably be able to help us after you have a better knowledge of what these weapons are and what these weapons do, thank you very much.
  DR. WAGNER: Thank you for your patience.
  KEVIN CANADA:     Hi, my name is Kevin Canada, and I can’t say it’s a joy to be here because I would much rather be somewhere else besides here, I’d rather be not a targeted individual, which I have been for the past 8 years. I believe my nightmare started at a V.A. hospital. Nineteen-ninety-eight I got very involved in some political stuff and I won’t go in to the details but I became what’s called a “targeted individual” and my life has changed unbelievably, gang stalking, electromagnetic weapons, directed energy weapons, some of these people even came to my house and jury-rigged electricity and I’m being electrocuted and everything. My appliances, I’ve been told that they can turn your appliances into weapons against you. So it’s become a nightmare, I think I’ve been implanted at a V.A. hospital, I don't know, I’m trying to figure it out, I know I’m being watched everywhere I go, surveilled, tracked like an animal. We need help. We need to be able to go someplace to find out if we have been implanted, what kind of technology are they using against us, we have nothing but be, try to get involved, for me to get involved to make this a better country, and for that we’ve stepped on some toes and now we’re targeted individuals and I’m sure most of the people here, innocent, are being targeted for reasons they really don’t know. So we need your help and I think the suggestion of having a T.I. on this Commission is a great suggestion. We need somebody who knows what’s happening to us helping us. But we need the technology to find out if we’ve been implanted and, because these intelligence agencies can get to any doctor, they can get to anybody that we see who might possibly help us, lawyers, attorneys, cops, you name it, they use it to harass us and attack us and we need your help.
  DR. WAGNER: Thank you, Kevin.
  ROSE KAPINSKY:      Hello, I’m Rose Kapinsky from Madison, Wisconsin. I know you would like to hear a little bit about my story. Often when I’m with people the perpetrators leave me alone, perhaps to make it look like it’s my imagination and then often when I am alone, they start hurting me, they start fatiguing me. I wanted to say quickly to help the light bulb go off for you, there’s always been a continual mysterious missing amounts of billions or trillions in the pentagon budget and try to think where that money might be going. There has been a story about oh the naughty contractors charging $100 for a hammer. I believe that may be a cover story. I think that, as you were saying, I think that the contractors for the Pentagon have gotten very proliferative. That’s not what you were saying, but you were talking about shutting down or dealing with egregious or abusive situations in research and I want to say, think about it for a minute. You’re very intelligent. Do you think, in the past things have gone on. Do you think there is nothing going on right now? Really? Zero? Zero, zilcho? Come on. That would be foolish, that would be, excuse me, that would be somewhat stupid. I’m sorry, that would be deluded and read Golachek, In the Name of Science, to hear about the history. Read current things like Nick Beggich, Controlling the Human Mind, subtitle, Tools For Political Control, or Tools for Peak Performance. And again, I think it’s just an issue of money, money, money and it’s gotten out of control.
  DR. WAGNER:  I think this going to be our last, I think this is going to be our last one. I’ll tell you what, is there a woman right behind you? We’ll take you also. Why don’t we do these last two questions, ok?
  LILLIANA CONNOR:    My name is Lilliana Connor, and I have also been subjected to these technologies. I think that the Commission is studying the issue of informed consent and that is a right, a human right that we all should have, even if these are classified operations, all persons should have the right of informed consent so that they could either decline participating in such studies, or otherwise opt out if they are informed at a later date that they have been subject to these studies. And non-consensual experimentation is a total violation of human rights. It should be outlawed, you know, any non-consensual experimentation. People should not have to be subjected like this and it would be important if you could recommend to President Obama to change the regulation of informed consent to include even classified operations on persons, and to outlaw and forever ban any non-consensual experimentation in the United States.
  DR. WAGNER: Thank you. By the way I did not get your name?
  LILLIANA CONNOR:  Lilliana Connor.
  DR. WAGNER:  Lilliana Connor. Thank you.
  LETICIA PETERS:  Hello, my name is Leticia Peters from Trenton, New Jersey. I spoke last time in March and since then..
  DR. WAGNER:  Yeah…
  LETICIA PETERS:   And since then my life has gone downward. And it’s a shame that we are Americans and we just want to be treated like Americans and we are part of a non-consensual human experimentation which uses highly advanced electronic technology without our informed consent or knowledge. And we are speaking for thousands of Americans citizens. We do not want an apology, we want justice and we want justice now. I am requesting that the Presidential Commission conduct an investigative hearing on non-consensual human experimentation and I do have credible evidence I’m submitting, 1158 videos and pictures that’s been occurring for the last two years. I’m also presenting 10 attachments which includes my 14-page public comment, plus Robert S. public comments, testimonies from Queen, Ottawa, three pages of testimony for Cindy Golmann. I have a 16 page letter from Japan for the Technological Crime Victims Network. Also I have a prayer because we really need prayer. This country needs prayer because so many people have died or lost their lives and we just want justice. And I just would like to come forward to submit all this information.
  DR. WAGNER:  Please feel free to give it to Val right here. I think with that we do need to wrap. It’s difficult to know how to respond to this session. Obviously there is deep concern and ..
  WOMAN:  I forgot to say that the biggest thing we need to do is, please, I’m begging you, get over intimidation brought down on you by the Department of Defense.
  DR. WAGNER:    Thank you. Thank you all for your input.
  MAN: In the list, he didn’t actually, he was. I would like to talk to him.
  WOMAN:  I would like to talk as well.
  DR. WAGNER:  Val, how many were on … we really got those on the list. I’m so sorry. I tell you what, we do have ways to submit through the website. Is that correct? So we do get a chance to read that but you’re going to remind me what the site address is for everybody.
  VAL:  It’s right up there.
  DR. WAGNER:  Oh, it’s right up there. So you can submit and you must, please do submit on that, ok. So thank you. I think we’re…
  MAN:   Just one second. for purpose. Did you ever see my letter?
  WOMAN:   We really…
  MAN:     Did you receive my letter miss.
  WOMAN:   Yes, we did.
  MAN:     You received it. I would like to have the answer. Yes.
  WOMAN: We have answered. We do have your list.
  MAN:   Have you received my letters?
  WOMAN:  Yes, yes.
  MAN:  You received it.
  WOMAN:  Yes.
  MAN:    What do you do in this regard? Did you receive my phone calls?
  DR. WAGNER:  Why don’t… your name sir? Edward….
  EDWARD KATZ:  Katz. KATZ.
  DR. WAGNER:  Why don’t we let… if we can… I was just going to say, if I would allow some time to let you finish, and if I could, if the Commission would indulge a little extra time in our agenda, will that satisfy your need?
  EDWARD KATZ:     Yes.
  DR. WAGNER:  Thank you sir. You have a minute and  a half, please.
  WOMAN:  Could we ask other people to …
  DR. WAGNER:    We need others to be seated though please. Everyone seated.
  EDWARD KATZ: And this gentleman, who is on the Commission.
  DR. WAGNER:  OK, we need the microphone, we need the microphone to you. You have..
  EDWARD KATZ:  You’re afraid to talk to me.
  DR. WAGNER:  No, no, no.
  EDWARD KATZ: Yes you are.
  DR. WAGNER:  I’m sorry, I’d asked you, please, to, I’ll be happy to give you time in front of the Commission, it doesn’t sound like that’s what you want.
  EDWARD KATZ:  I want
  DR. WAGNER:     OK, why don’t you take the microphone and we’ll give you a minute and a half like everyone else. You need the microphone so we can have a record. And please give us your name again.
  EDWARD KATZ:  My name is Edward Katz
  DR. WAGNER:  Edward…. Ok. Calmly please. Tell us your story, or tell us your comment, please.
  EDWARD KATZ:  Would it send in the ma… name Mrs. Emmy Guttmann.
  EDWARD KATZ:  Horrifying letter, which has been supported actually by the video statement.
  DR. WAGNER: Oh my.
  EDWARD KATZ:   This video statement shows astrophysical torture by means of brain implants. All my family received, why we moved to California, settled right next to the Stanford research, including my children.
  WOMAN:  Two boys.
  EDWARD KATZ:  Two boys been implanted in optic nerves and blah, blah, blah. Anyway. Mrs. Barbara Boxer requested headquarter F.B.I. to provide information in this regards and the F.B.I. told us what we are on the experiment. Then the Department of Justice, Mr. Holder, told us what we have to learn how to live with that. With torture. With robbery and that is on tape and Mrs. Gutmann have this tape and we beg you for many times, please call Obama, stop torture. Obama can stop torture. Did you call? Did you call Obama, we’re asking you, stop torture, physical torture, please.
  WOMAN: Stop the torture.
  DR. WAGNER: Please, we can..
  EDWARD KATZ:    Inhumane torture. Just take a look this picture of people.
  WOMAN:  I, I—
  EDWARD KATZ:  OK, thank you very much.
  EDWARD KATZ:  Especially we came from Soviet Union, especially we came from the Communist Bloc and are here for the freedom and what they did to my babies.
  DR. WAGNER:  It’s obviously a horrific story and I …
  WOMAN:  [inaudible] for Mrs. Gutmann, please sir.
  DR. WAGNER:  I think Val can take it, she’s our head staff person. Thank you very much.
  EDWARD KATZ:   [inaudible] many, many times [inaudible].
  DR. WAGNER:    I think you for your civility in ….
  EDWARD KATZ:   I think. 
  DR. WAGNER: I thank you for your civility in presenting to us. And I think with that we should stand adjourned. Thank you all very, very much. Have a good day.
  AMY GUTMANN:  Thank you all very, very much.
  JAMES WAGNER: Goodbye.
[END]